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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:38 am

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at the end of the game when one team has 3 wins and if all of them has the same number of beans, yes they all get a token of life.

^ Mas.

This is my idea... Ideally, we'd be in the same group, but that's unlikely. Still, at least 2 of us will be in the same group.

First round, let the other team win - no one bets any beans at all, let the other group waste beans. Ideally, do that again the 2nd round. 3rd round, each person bets enough for the combined total to be more than what the other team can bet. Then bet the remainder over the next 2 rounds. Conversely, one person bet 4 and 2 people bet 3 each round (still probably better to not bet any beans at all at least one round, be it the 1st or 2nd). Everyone ends with no beans left - but since everyone has the same number of beans, everyone gets a token of life.

Whichever of us is one the other team... well... I guess either bet as few beans as possible to not automatically go to the Death Match, or bet all of your beans to choose who you challenge.

The spanner in the works here is that none of this can really be discussed in the teams, because others can spy. So it sort of depends on how the teams are laid out. As stupid as it sounds, it might be a good idea to come up with a few possible plans, depending on how it unfolds, and code words/phrases to express that to each other in the Hall. Because the other option, of course, is that the 2 of us on a team can play pretty much no beans at all to let the other team win, then the person on THAT team can bet no beans and end up winning. But if by some miracle we're all on the same team, we could all get a token of life and win 3 rounds by playing all of our beans.

Thoughts?
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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:24 am

I really don't think this is a good strategy...and I'll explain why :

You don't want to be in a position where you HAVE TO WIN 3 rounds in a row (yes, one of us will be a spy in their camp, but you forget that they will have a spy in ours).
The one on his own will have to sacrifice himself, that's something we have to agree on if this is to work. The other 2 can even explain this to the "outsider" in the group , that the third one of us will be the death match candidate.

I agree with the 3 of us betting 10 beans each in 3 chosen rounds, but start off that way in round 1. It's better to know how many they have wasted first. Also the one on his own must bet 0 , so we know how many the other 2 have bet between them

Second round , we bet 0 , and this is where the one on his own must sacrifice himself and bet the 10 chips he has.

So basically , the score is now 1-1. Our team still has 20 chips/beans whatever.
They will have (20 minus the amount the other 2 players bet in the first round)

So with 3 rounds to go, the odds are in our favour.

Thoughts ?

P.S
I have no issue whatsoever with sacrificing myself if I am on my own , the idea of challenging Sam or Mets is rather appealing , and I will of course pass on my garnets before the death match, in that eventuality.

Come to think of it, it would be IDEAL if I was the one on my own, since they would never suspect me of working with you guys, since it was well known that I was in an alliance with Than !!
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 12:31 pm

It should be easy enough to win with one sacrificing a loss/not betting any beans. But you're right - makes more sense to start off betting, then bet 0 the next round (either one sure win with them betting conservatively, or knowing how much they've wasted). But it might actually make more sense to have the person on their own win.

1.) Their team would be more likely to win rounds with 2 people betting beans; the team with 2 of us would be more likely to lose with 2 NOT betting beans (ie: only 10 maximum beans in play for the entire team)
2.) This would mean 1 winner in the entire game, which means 5 people still eligible for the Death Match... decreases odds a little.

The spying is tricky... why effectively nothing can be discussed once the game starts. Which is why I thought some code might be useful. Something subtle that people wouldn't catch onto, like writing "I'm" but *forgetting* the apostrophe - "Im" - as a way to indicate between the different plans, depending on what information can be gathered.

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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:04 pm

You know, communicating in the "hall" in code form is a really good idea.

1. Decide on a "code" word. For example - YOU
2. The number of words after that "code word" in a post reveals how many beans the team is thinking of playing.

Hi , there . I was just wandering if you guys have some kind of strategy planned for this round ?

So in this case it would be 10 !!

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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:27 pm

That's a great idea... if we can get reliable information, it could help decide what rounds to bet and what rounds not to bet, and how much to bet each round.
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:30 pm

However, it would also depend on if we could reliably get the 3rd person to go along with it. Which is the other problem.
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switza

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:34 pm

I like the code word, but "you" might be too common a word and could cause confusion if typed without thinking, ie "Do you know how many you are going to play?" Maybe use a word like "beans". It would be a word that makes sense to use, but wouldn't be a common enough word to be accidentally used.
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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 4:58 pm

yeah, that makes sense. So, we're agreed on "beans" ?

This little bit of info might help , cause it doesn't imply giving or requiring information :

In the show, this game was called "kong's dilemma" , kong is the korean word for beans , mas changed it into english for our benefit.

SO in this example , the secret code tells us that the team is planning to use 8 beans
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:19 pm

Beans works.  

The next question is how should we play this if we're split up (which is likely)

1.) The person on a team by themselves tries to make sure their team loses/works as a mole to let the other 2 know how their team should bet to get a token of life for those 2, or
2.) The 2 together throw the challenge so, similar mole behavior, so that single person's team wins the challenge and the individual person wins the whole match.

Option #1 would keep 2 safe, but it would limit the Death Match pool making the odds worse for the other.  Option #2 would keep 1 safe, but make the Death Match pool larger (it might keep 2 safe - did Mas mention a 2nd token of life?).  

In some ways, it depends on who's on which team.  For example, if White team is Mets, Nat, and either Adam or me... there might be a greater benefit to White team losing (it's likely Mets would pick Nat over Adam or me - not a sure bet, but a decent shot - not sure if Mets would pick Mets over Adam, though).  If, however, Pete is on a team with Mets, Pete has been one of his targets for a while now (since the criminal/citizen sabotage) - so then the goal would be to have that team win, and Pete win as an individual.  However, if a team is 2 of us and Sam, then it may be more beneficial to go for the gold and try to get immunity for everyone on that team.

It might be a good idea to either come up with what the play is per each possible team, or to develop a codeword or phrase (even something seemingly open to everyone, like "Is anyone else confused?" to suggest the team with 1 wins, or "Glad this challenge should be shorter than the last" to suggest the team with 2 wins) - just so we can get on the same page if a bomb drops and we need to covertly get on the same page.
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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:33 pm

The idea of me being on my won with 2 other players and trying to win as a team and individual is making things trickier than they should be. If I am on my own, I would much rather sabotage things and end up as a death match candidate.... I'm still proud of my sabotage in he criminal/citizen game lol. To be honest, I think that's the best plan for any of us 3 if we should be on our own in a team.

EDIT :
I asked Mas and he confirmed that a "sole winner" gets an extra token of life to give to someone else
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:53 pm

If that's what you want. But if there's a 2nd token of a life, it would actually be a lot easier for a team of 2 to sabotage it than for just 1 person to do so. But either way could work.
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switza

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:53 pm

You two with all your garnets might be big targets. I'm fine with sacrificing so you 2 can share the tokens of life if need be.
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 5:57 pm

Garnets give an advantage in Death Matches now, though... which some people have started picking up on (last match, Mets gave most of his garnets to Sam, but kept enough to have the advantage over Than).

Which reminds me: Adam, do you want me to give you a garnet to repay the one used last Main Match?  Or are you content being low on the garnet totem?
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switza

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:01 pm

I'm fine at the bottom
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:10 pm

I guess it seems the person on a team alone is in the most precarious position here, so should we just leave it up to whomever that is to decide which team should win when that happens/whoever sees what the set-up is?
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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:23 pm

I'll tell you right now, if I'm on my own, I'll sabotage that team no matter what ok.
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:35 pm

Ha, fair enough. I guess for us other 2... think it through, then find a way to say the color of the team you want to win in your first post in the hall. So, if I say, "Hello from the white team", it would be "the goal is for white to win"; "Hello, red team" would be the goal is for red to win. Seems fool-proof enough.

(mostly, I'm worried about getting the other person on the 2-of-us team to go along with the plan) We'll figure it out.
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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:45 pm

Quote :
(mostly, I'm worried about getting the other person on the 2-of-us team to go along with the plan) We'll figure it out.

The third person doesn't necessarily need to know...I think that if the first 2 rounds go according to plan, they won't doubt your tactics thereafter Wink. The difficult bit is convincing them for those first couple of rounds
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Sun Jan 03, 2016 6:48 pm

Well, the concern is if the 3rd person doesn't go along with it, the team may end up winning, but that 3rd person may win individually - which defeats the purpose of keeping at least 2 of us safe.
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:41 pm

Mas, hurry! Most important Death Match of the game, and we need to work out every possible angle of the challenge until Adam's head is spinning (sorry Adam... and sorry for all of the questions we're about to ask, Mas).
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switza

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:49 pm

Lost track of time and didn't get to post that final round. My goal was last place to challenge Sam. Oh well
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:52 pm

Yeah, Sam was the goal here. It's alright. You can do this. Go with the odds and know when to bet vs fold. Bluff like crazy when you have to and it could work in your favor. Should I have Mas re-open my board with Nat to see if I can get anything, or would it be too risky?

I wish it were a challenge with more possible loopholes/ways to play it.
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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:57 pm

Remember to write down all the cards that have come out !! It will help in the long run !!

The best way to do it is to write down the numbers 1-10 twice, and score a number out once that card is drawn
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:00 pm

I think I remember Mas saying last time that all of the cards are in 1 virtual deck... so, someone could get two 10s, someone may get two 1s. So just because Nat got a number once before doesn't mean he won't again. Hopefully Nat has forgotten that, though.
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soullimbo

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PostSubject: Re: PAT Match 8   Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:17 pm

yeah...there are 20 cards 2x(1-10) , shuffled before play begins. So in theory, when you get to the 10th hand, you will know for sure if your hand is winning or not.

To a lesser extent , even in the 8th round (when there are 6 cards left , you could get lucky...) for example , you know that the 6 cards left are :

3, 4 , 4 ,5 ,7 ,9 .

If you know that your opponent has a 3 , you can't lose.
If he has a 4 , the odds are still in your favour.
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