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 Round 4...

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Bandage Man
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PostSubject: Round 4...   Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:09 pm

Here is your role:

"CITIZEN"
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:40 pm

Hey, can we get the big room back, Sam/Mets/Duck/Dana/Switza/Pete/Tomcat (exactly as it was... up to someone else if they want to include one excluding Switza - want to see if anyone does that)?
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:01 pm

Ha! Obviously, through the IMDb Games board, this game was bound to be played as a close approximation to Survivor/Big Brother... or as closely as possible, given the format. I do apologize for that, but I'm sure you realize that to adapt to how others are playing, anyone who came into this game expecting it to be different have to adapt to how others are playing it to stand a chance.

On that note, I wish people would listen to me more. Short of my dumb moment regarding Blake's move in the Death Match, generally, I think I have a pretty good idea of how to win each challenge... or "win" in the sense of the result being in our favor. But no one listens to me, and we end up in this limbo where none of us (alliance) know what is going to happen and we're all potentially screwed. I have no intention of going against Switza or Pete, but provided I'm still in the game in a few rounds (when I'm likely to become a target), I might have to circumvent their trust and go against them (on the surface) to do what needs to be done to win (for any of us to win). Switza knows my gameplay in these sorts of games better than anyone else, so he'll probably be alright with it/not assume I'm turning on him. Pete... probably not. My primary goal is to win - but a very close 2nd is to make sure one of them wins if I don't. And there may come a time I'm gonna need to screw them over a little bit to help that along. In a few rounds, I'll be very vulnerable, so I can't keep being vulnerable through teamwork in addition to that. As of right now, that teamwork is probably my biggest vulnerability (but I'm not especially vulnerable beyond that, so it's a fair balance - but that balance will need to change). And yes, I'm arrogant. Very Happy

Right now, I feel at risk... not because I think I'm a big target, but because I think I'm seen as a safe secondary target (especially to those who haven't played other games with me/don't see me as a challenge threat). I assumed Mets wouldn't ever challenge me directly because he knows there's a good chance I'd beat him... but after he pitted himself against Blake, that safety net is gone (clearly he's fine being suicidal and hoping, against the odds, it works out). And I've played games with very few people in this group (and Henry is gone) - Switza has hosted, and in that sense it's almost unfortunate we're on the same alliance, because my biggest safety net right now is also someone I wouldn't challenge anyway/I don't think he'd challenge me just because of our alliance.

I'm not comfortable with losing the Main Match, but I'll do what I can within the non-strategic strategy we have to make sure that happens. But if people don't start listening/putting more thought into controlling these challenges to our advantage, it's gonna get messy (I'll still be on their side, completely loyal - but it may not look like that sometimes).

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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:13 am

Mets' jury, trial 2 verdict: Guilty
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:16 pm

I feel like this challenge was basically a bust. Maybe someone has secretly steered it in a clever way, but I doubt it. Hopefully it's just over after this round and puts us all out of our misery.

Nothing wrong with the challenge, mind. It's a clever premise. But... yeah.
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Bandage Man
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:17 pm

it might work better if some of you are not working with alliances but making sure their side wins, lol. but who knows. the game has not yet ended. anything can happen
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:17 pm

I knowwwww!  But if everyone's in an alliance, not working in an alliance is dangerous.  

Switza and Pete's play wasn't bad... Switza basically set Pete up to look like the criminal leader.  Good move if the citizen leader doesn't get information from elsewhere (or if you reveal who the leaders were at the end, for that matter - then clearly Pete was a citizen voting Not Guilty - same effect).  If the citizen leader does get information from elsewhere, it means Pete is implicitly called out for sabotaging the challenge, and it looks pretty clear that Adam set it up that way.  If not that overt, it makes it very clear to everyone that Pete is working with *someone* on the criminals team (and he's working with both Adam and Than at the very least).  And this is another problem with alliances... yes, they can help protect you as a voting block, but it also encourages people to look for consistent patterns about who's working it who, and being in an alliance can make you vulnerable as a secondary target when your other alliance members aren't so vulnerable (as a move to weaken the alliance as a whole).  And I'm guessing Mets and maybe some others have noticed a little uniformity between the 3 of us, but that could be chalked up to us just talking and not necessarily working *against* the larger group.  

So now, if anyone can put 2 and 2 together (and I'm sure they can after this), it means Pete and I (but especially Pete) are now GREAT candidates for being challenged to the Death Match.  So any protective aspect this play may have had has now gone out the window if someone's just smart enough to see Pete was set-up as a dummy (which is why I was so against that idea/setting it up in a way people could find patterns, with us being on the losing end).  And why I'm getting tired of working well with others (but much to your dismay, I can't outright go against an alliance, and wouldn't want to anyway, since I don't want to screw over Adam and Pete).  We'll see what happens.
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Mon Dec 07, 2015 8:23 pm

My last hope is that you don't reveal who was on which team. But I know you have to/that's part of the challenge. I have a really bad feeling about the Death Match now. I'm guessing they'll nominate Jess, and she'll challenge either Pete or me. I also think Mets would challenge me, so hopefully they don't throw him in again.

If I'm still around next challenge, things need to change.
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:17 pm

I'm still harping on this, I know, but...

That was such a dumb move. Why did they do that? What good did they think could come out of that? Ugh. WHY?! The criminals still would've won without using Pete as a red herring... and all Switza had to do was choose himself for his own jury and still would've gotten a Not Guilty verdict. It helped take attention away from the real leader, sure... but either they already knew that info or they didn't. Pure and simple.

Well, one of us is gonna get to see the Death Match a little sooner than expected, I guess.
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Bandage Man
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:26 pm

haha, continue to harp on it if u want. love reading it.

anyway, i'm going to agree that pete shouldn't have done it for round 3 since they already had 2 not guilty votes. round 2 is still ok since he was shielding kathy.

that's the beauty of this game. if u choose to play alliances in a challenge where clearly you have 2 winning conditions, if you don't hide yourself well, people might find out. but you never know if the rest figured it out or not.

in season 2 of the real show, there is a challenge that clearly divides the players into two teams. and one guy got caught being the traitor because the winning team let slip that somebody in the losing team's helped them. and he got chosen for the death match and was eliminated.

hopefully it goes better for you all this time.
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Mon Dec 07, 2015 11:21 pm

Ha! Yeah, I get *why*... I just don't think they thought it all the way through.

The 2nd round, Pete shielded Kathy - it would've been better to disapprove of the jury, though. The 3rd round, Adam wanted Pete back in it for them to detect a pattern of Pete voting Not Guilty (Sam/Mets would already know how each other voted, Adam knew the citizen leader already knew his name and probably trusted Than enough with the same... so Pete would be the wildcard for the citizen leader). And obviously it worked - Sam guessed Pete as the citizen leader, which was the goal. So, fair. But it also reveals Pete as working with the criminals... so that temporary win is met with a big loss that will last beyond this round. There's surely a better way to disguise the criminal leader.

And like you said, if you play in an alliance you have to hide yourself well. I think there's been a lot of suspicion about who's working with who, but no one's been 100% certain or ready to make a move based on their suspicions. But Adam and Pete just confirmed that suspicion for anyone who was curious, which means Pete is likely to be challenged for the Death Match, and I'm probably not far behind on that suspicion list (if the suspicion of them working together panned out for anyone, then they probably suspected me, too - and that indirect confirmation should be enough). I haven't talked to Jess at all in this game (or ever), so I don't know how she'd read all of this if she's nominated, but she's still probably a safer bet than the others (because Sam/Mets/Duck aren't gonna challenge each other). Also, I'm pretty confident I could beat her in a 1-on-1 challenge, if she were to pick me. That would also give everyone a round to try to let this blow over. But we'll see what actually happens.

My previous complaints aside, I do have to say you're doing an awesome job with this game and it's a lot of fun - even if I do want to grab and shake certain people at times.

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:22 pm

it's always good to know people are enjoying the game. i do want to grab and shake some of you at times lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:54 pm

Some questions:

1) What do you think about last round's Death Match between Blake and Mets?

2) Were you expecting that outcome?

3) What do you think about Main Match #4?

4) Do you like the role you were given?

5) What was your strategy for it?

6) What do you think about alliances in this game?

7) Why do you think they choose Jess to be sent to the Death Match?

Cool What do you think about Jess choosing Mets?

9) What do you think about the Death Match?

10) Who do you want to win that Death Match?
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Tomcat Murr

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PostSubject: Re: Round 4...   Tue Dec 08, 2015 9:30 pm


1) What do you think about last round's Death Match between Blake and Mets?

It was a fun challenge. I didn't play it, but I'm fine with that. It got pretty tense for a moment... difficult spectating and trying to figure what's going on without seeing at least one number played each round.

2) Were you expecting that outcome?

I didn't know what to expect, honestly. I didn't know if Blake would do something brilliant (he didn't).

3) What do you think about Main Match #4?

It was just a wash. I stopped even bothering with it... whatever was gonna happen was out of my hands, and it wasn't worth trying. I was just waiting for it to be over. It's a cool challenge in that it involved a lot of looking for patterns and planning around them, but in the end it was almost a cop-out (that use of patterns was used, sure, but...).

4) Do you like the role you were given?

No. Criminals obviously had the advantage for winning, and it wouldn't be that difficult to keep the criminal leader hidden. Being a leader would've been ideal because you'd have even more control over that. But I was a mere citizen, and not the leader, so I really knew nothing on my own and didn't have much room to do anything.

5) What was your strategy for it?

I had some ideas early on, but none of that was happening. So, ultimately, mostly just staying out of it and hoping it didn't blow up in my face.

6) What do you think about alliances in this game?

Alliances always have their pros and cons. In some ways, this game really lends itself to alliances, since challenges are team events; in other ways, depending on how the lines are drawn each challenge, they can be a huge disadvantage. That's probably true of any strategy game, though. The Genius - the show - isn't quite as alliance driven as Survivor, etc... But the internet version, through IMDb, clearly will merge, and has merged, to some degree with a Survivor/BB format. Which is fair in a way - that's what everyone knows (I'd guess contestants on The Genius didn't grow up watching Survivor and Big Brother to the extent people on the Games board have). People will approach any game per their own understanding/assumptions of how it works. I'd be happy without alliances, but I'm also happy with - adapting to either isn't too difficult. I will say the one real pitfall of playing the game with such strong alliances is it ultimately changes both the outcome of, and approach to, certain challenges. Like the card game... that, by nature, only should've had 1 loser automatically going to the Death Match. So by playing it so alliance focused, we're almost creating more voting circumstances, and creating more of an alliance-based social aspect than there really need be - setting everyone up, including ourselves and our own alliances, to be the victim of alliance-war rather than challenge-based "genius".

7) Why do you think they choose Jess to be sent to the Death Match?

Because she's an easy target, given the current alliance set-up, with both Adam and Than in the voting pool.

8.) What do you think about Jess choosing Mets?

Mets is the Death Match star. Who else would she choose?

9) What do you think about the Death Match?

It's one form of poker. Go with mathematical odds, and know when to fold vs. when to bluff like crazy (and try to double bluff when you know you have it, to lead your opponent into a bluff and get them to take as big a hit/you get as big a win as possible). It's pretty intuitive. That said, you're dealt the hand you're dealt, and there's only so much you can do/there are no guarantees.

10) Who do you want to win that Death Match?

I'd like Mets to win, but I'm not too bothered. Jess winning might be more advantageous, really. Since I don't fully trust Mets, I'm more interested to see what happens. But I wouldn't mind at all if he wins.
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